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Xiaopang

Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 11:15
I know that updates are mandatory in Windows 10 and the only option MS gives us is to defer them for a few months. However, that isn't good enough. I presume that those forced updates might cause a whole slew of problems months down the road when Windows tries to forcibly update components that have been removed with Winreducer. Updates might fail and might send Windows into a constant update and reboot loop. They might introduce dependencies that have already been removed, causing tons of problems, may be even crashes and whatnot.

So there should be a way to avoid those updates and there is: just don't connect the computer to the internet. Since that is not practical, there must be other ways like using the HOSTS file to route Windows Update back to the home machine or using a firewall/router to block its access to Microsoft's update servers. May be even hacking the component that is responsible for the updates so that it will always fail connecting to the update servers.

Has anyone ever dabbled successfully around with this? For now, I have deactivated the Windows Update service, but for some reason I don't trust it to be a reliable permanent solution.
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KrX

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 13:31
hi,

just a thought, why dont you remove the windows update service ? or do you want to keep it ?
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Torrentus

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 14:43
Yea, I am also removing completely all files related to Windows Updates in my install.wim.
There really is no need to keep this, the best way is always to slipstream all Windows Updates into your ISO...
Much more freedom and you don't need to be always connected to a MS server which sends your data...
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Xiaopang

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 18:50
Thanks for your replies. It's not always practical to remove the entire thing. For example, I'm using an old HP LaserJet 4 whose drivers can only be acquired through Windows Update. HP doesn't supply any for newer operating systems and I haven't been able to get them otherwise. Since I have no clue what other drivers I may have to acquire this way in the future, I want to keep it just in case.

As for slipstreaming updates into the ISO, that's what I have been doing all along, but I don't install Windows every few weeks, let alone create new ISOs. So that's only useful for the first few weeks or months, but at one point in time an update might be in order, if only to fix some unforseen bugs.


Torrentus wrote:Much more freedom and you don't need to be always connected to a MS server which sends your data...

That's why I have deactivated the service and only use it on a need-to-use basis.
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Jpm

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 18:57
for your HP driver just integrated the stuff coming in DriveStore.
You will not need to go to Windows update after, at least if no update needed
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KrX

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 19:04
about your driver "problem".

i remove windows update for my windows 7, but when pluging in some hardware im still able to download the driver via device manager

also to get your driver you could before pluging in your printer, goto C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download and delete everything there. After that plug in your printer let it download your driver. after that the downloaded driver should be inside the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download folder. it could be inside a folder or inside of a .cab file (which can be extracted with 7zip)
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Xiaopang

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 19:13
The driver is not in the offline driver store. Windows itself doesn't support the device with the drivers it ships with, but needs to download extended support files through update. I have not been able to filter out the driver from the online driver store.

Anyway, my point is that I have no clue for what kind of hardware I might need the update functionality for in the future. The printer might break tomorrow and I might get a different one, so even if I was able to get the driver manually to integrate it, it wouldn't do me any good for other retro hardware.

Also, it goes against my idea of having a modified Windows version streamlined for space and speed and then mindlessly integrating components that aren't useful for all the machines I use this Windows version on

KRX wrote:i remove windows update for my windows 7, but when pluging in some hardware im still able to download the driver via device manager

That doesn't work. The printer isn't recognized. It's from 1993 and thus doesn't support plug'n play. It's connected via an LPT2USB-cable which emulates the LPT-protocol which doesn't make it easier to recognize the device. I have to install the printer manually by selecting it from a list of supported devices which does not contain it unless I update it through Windows update. Only then does it list all those fancy retro printers. So there's no way around Windows Update in this case.

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winterstorm2050
Admin
https://www.winreducer.net/

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 20:04
Hello,

What you could do is to use a software that is able to "capture" your drivers. There are some software like "Drivers Genius" or "driversbackup" that are able to backup your installed drivers ... like this you will be able to integrate them directly in your ISO.

But you could also do it manually but getting them from your installed system.

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Xiaopang

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 21:05
Thanks for the hint. I wasn't aware that there was software that's capable of extracting installed drivers. I tried it manually, but didn't get a usable result.
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winterstorm2050
Admin
https://www.winreducer.net/

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 21:07
I have to use this "manually" technique for an old HP printer, and there are 3 different drivers I needed to save. Maybe you missed another driver ... Wink
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Torrentus

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 22:43
I don't really understand it. You don't need to have Windows Update for Drivers?! Most of the users like myself download the latest drivers ( doesn't matter if printer or scanner or whatever hardware component ) from the manufacture website and then install it without problems. You just don't need to have Windows Update functionality because Windows Updates are generally updating only Windows itself ( bugfixing dll's , programs, stability, security leaks etc. ). I have used for more than 14 years various stripped Windows OS's and have never encountered any problems installing drivers when the Windows Updates was removed or the WinSxS folder was slimmed down...

And about slipstreaming the Windows Updates, well I only update my already slimmed down Windows ISO once every half to full year. If service packs are released more often, then it's another story and I integrate them right away...

So don't worry about Windows Updates and driver functionality, just do it manually. No problems whatsoever Smile
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KrX

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 22:55
Torrentus wrote:So don't worry about Windows Updates and driver functionality, just do it manually. No problems whatsoever Smile


i think you misunderstood. its not about installing a driver which you get from a manufacture homepage. but about a drver for an older hardware which you cant get as driver from the homepage of i.e. HP.

i.e my parents got an old printer from HP but you cant download a driver for the printer anymore (and also the driver i once downloaded years ago was for XP), but pluging in the printer the icon on the taskbar appears for hardware installation (like at device manager) and the driver will be downloaded from microsoft which is working.

but like i wrote in my last post, the driver is downloaded like an update and you can finde it at C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download, its either extracted in a folder or you can finde it in a .cab file
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Torrentus

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 23:01
Haha, if you can't find drivers for hardware on the internet ( not only direct from the manufacture but also other websites )
then it must be really old, never had any of those problems  Razz

P.S Also most of the newer drivers ( driver pack) are compatible with older hardware as far as I know, but this must be really an exception...
There are also driver websites which have really a driver collection/database with old drivers available for download.
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Xiaopang

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Mon 17 Aug 2015 - 23:41
Torrentus wrote:Haha, if you can't find drivers for hardware on the internet ( not only direct from the manufacture but also other websites )
then it must be really old, never had any of those problems  Razz

Like I said: The printer is from 1993. HP hasn't supplied a driver directly in a long time, but thanks to the fact that it's a once pretty expensive business printer, it's still being supported by Microsoft through Windows Update. Downloading the driver from the manufacturer's homepage is a no-brainer and basically the first step, but if they stop supporting their stuff, then that's usually it.

Remember when Vista came out and plenty of hardware never saw driver updates even if it was still rather new? For example a rather new Canon Lide 20 scanner I bought just a year before Vista was released didn't receive an official driver update from Canon, so hardware doesn't necessarily have to be old to be unsupported. Wink


Torrentus wrote:
P.S Also most of the newer drivers ( driver pack) are compatible with older hardware as far as I know, but this must be really an exception...
There are also driver websites which have really a driver collection/database with old drivers available for download.

Doesn't do ya any good if the latest official driver's for Win XP. It's not like this is a new issue. This printer is still widely being used and the internet is filled with threads of people asking for up to date drivers. If one was available outside of Windows Update, someone would have mentioned it, plus my own research didn't turn up anything.



Winterstorm2050 wrote:I have to use this "manually" technique for an old HP printer, and there are 3 different drivers I needed to save. Maybe you missed another driver ...

Well, I tried to find the inf-file and go from there since it must list all its dependencies, but I wasn't even able to find it. I'll give the software you mentioned a shot, because I hate downloading that updated device list. It's over 100MB in size and takes ages through Windows Update. What HP printer are you using? I'm always on the look out for reliable old hardware. Nowadays printers break faster than an egg hitting a pan Smile
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Torrentus

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Tue 18 Aug 2015 - 0:00
Ok a printer from 1993 Wink well that's surely old. The only reason to use such old printers is because of not having pre-programmed planned obsolescence
despite of having worse print quality?! No other reason to think of Very Happy
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Xiaopang

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Tue 18 Aug 2015 - 0:13
It is old as hell, but sorry to disappoint you twice: It's a laser printer and the quality is top notch. Beats even expensive modern inkjet printers. In fact, I sold a Canon MGS 5250 (ca. 250 EUR), because the HP was functioning so well, while the Canon only caused troubles. Its quality could match the one of the HP, but not exceed it and of course it was a lot slower, used tons of ink and took ages to even get ready after system start. Oh and when using the highest quality, the paper would be wet since it was soaking in ink while laser printed paper is dry as the desert. Also, with 12 pages per minute, the printing speed of the HP is still hard to match for inkjets when they have to go full quality on complex to print content. The Canon couldn't do it.

As for planned obsolescence: according to a source on the web, the printer has an internal counter that makes it spit out a "service required" message after 50.000 pages. I haven't cared enough to find a way to read out the internal counter to see if I acquired it before or after that point. It just works as it's supposed to...unlike every ink jet printer that I or friends have bought in the last 15 years. If it ever reaches the point where it craps out on me and I won't find a way to reset the counter, I'll just buy a new old one.

My HP costs between 10 and 20 EUR on eBay. I bought a new toner cartridge for 12 EUR including shipping and that lasts for 7000 pages. Try to match that with any inkjet. The cost even for refill kits is easily twice as high, even for older printers and you can consider yourself lucky if your inkjet outlives the refill kit. Not a single one of mine ever did. Plus the HP only uses Philipps screws and thus can be maintained with a simple screwdriver. It's virtually indestructable and it'll be in use until MS drops support for it. There's a reason why so many people still cling to it Wink

Oh and just since I just had to dabble with that: The manufacturer for my webcam, a Logitech E3500, only offers a driver for Windows 7. While that might work in Windows 10, it's from 2009 while Microsoft supplies its own up to date version with Windows 10, so the manufacturer's homepage isn't always the best idea for getting a driver once they drop support for the device.
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winterstorm2050
Admin
https://www.winreducer.net/

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Tue 18 Aug 2015 - 9:39
Xiaopang wrote:
Winterstorm2050 wrote:I have to use this "manually" technique for an old HP printer, and there are 3 different drivers I needed to save. Maybe you missed another driver ...
Well, I tried to find the inf-file and go from there since it must list all its dependencies, but I wasn't even able to find it. I'll give the software you mentioned a shot, because I hate downloading that updated device list. It's over 100MB in size and takes ages through Windows Update. What HP printer are you using? I'm always on the look out for reliable old hardware. Nowadays printers break faster than an egg hitting a pan Smile
It was an HP PSC1350 (All In One) (Inkjet) from 2003. Unfortunately, HP didn't developed new drivers since Vista, so I had to use the MS driver which is incomplete (no cartridge level). I've backup the drivers from an old vista installation and integrated it each time in all my following systems (windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1), for Windows 10 (I will migrate to it when I will be sure that will be stable enough to avoid some common troubles) I will buy a new cheaper all in one printer, but this will not be an HP ... Wink

Yes, I'm agree with you all manufacturers do not care about our money. They are creating great products but with a support date, to "help" us change regularly ... Crying or Very sad

If you dig a little you will be able to find great free product to backup this driver you need in a zip. After you will be able to extract it in the WinReducer Drivers folders to integrate it your ISO.
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Torrentus

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Tue 18 Aug 2015 - 12:27
Xiaopang wrote:It is old as hell, but sorry to disappoint you twice: It's a laser printer and the quality is top notch. Beats even expensive modern inkjet printers. In fact, I sold a Canon MGS 5250 (ca. 250 EUR), because the HP was functioning so well, while the Canon only caused troubles. Its quality could match the one of the HP, but not exceed it and of course it was a lot slower, used tons of ink and took ages to even get ready after system start. Oh and when using the highest quality, the paper would be wet since it was soaking in ink while laser printed paper is dry as the desert. Also, with 12 pages per minute, the printing speed of the HP is still hard to match for inkjets when they have to go full quality on complex to print content. The Canon couldn't do it.

Well if you use old printers for text only printing then I see no problem, but I can't believe that an old laser print from 1993 can beat latest mainstream inkjet printers when printing 32Bit high resolution photos that contain fine complex gradient levels. This would be too good to be true, you would see flawed nuances ( banding ) in the gradients and also the colors wouldn't be fully saturated like when printing on inkjets...

Xiaopang wrote:As for planned obsolescence: according to a source on the web, the printer has an internal counter that makes it spit out a "service required" message after 50.000 pages. I haven't cared enough to find a way to read out the internal counter to see if I acquired it before or after that point. It just works as it's supposed to...unlike every ink jet printer that I or friends have bought in the last 15 years. If it ever reaches the point where it craps out on me and I won't find a way to reset the counter, I'll just buy a new old one.

Yea, 50.000 pages is really a high number, this is only logical because back in the 90's planned obsolescence wasn't that aggressive as nowadays. In today's standard, hardware engineers program and limit the counter to a really low number, home office printers will likely to start having a strange behaviour after 5.000 pages or so... But there are already hackers and crackers that have programmed mini software which resets the counter to zero  Wink

But inkjet printers are generally better when printing photos but also with problems ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ), for text only I would also prefer a laser printer...
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Xiaopang

Re: Any way to deactivate updates in Windows 10?

on Tue 18 Aug 2015 - 13:20
Torrentus wrote:
Well if you use old printers for text only printing then I see no problem, but I can't believe that an old laser print from 1993 can beat latest mainstream inkjet printers when printing 32Bit high resolution photos that contain fine complex gradient levels. This would be too good to be true

Not only that. It would be impossible, seeing that it's a black and white machine only Wink
I did print a couple of pictures just for shits and giggles and they turned out surprisingly well, but nothing I'd use for a photo album. Then again, I'm not into photo printing at all. I keep it digital at all times and if the need arises, I'll always go to the copy shop, drug store or a professional photo studio. Their machinese are way better than what you can get for household use and also cheaper, unless you print pictures in insane quantities.


Torrentus wrote:
Yea, 50.000 pages is really a high number, this is only logical because back in the 90's planned obsolescence wasn't that aggressive as nowadays.

Well, since it's a business printer, 50k isn't that much. Considering that if you printed like 150 pages a day, you could plow through that in a year. I'm really surprised that they did implement such a mechanism that early on. Back in the day, the hardware had to last, because it was expensive and people wouldn't just scrap it for a new replacement. Also, it wouldn't do your brand name much good seeing that the market was much smaller back then but with a lot more competitors (Olivetti and Oki come to mind). So, I'm still sceptical about that rumor. May be the message will pop up, but may be it can also be ignored. Imagine the printer just refusing to work during a busy work day for no good reason other than reaching an arbitrary number. That would be the end of the business relationship between me and HP.

Torrentus wrote:
In today's standard, hardware engineers program and limit the counter to a really low number, home office printers will likely to start having a strange behaviour after 5.000 pages or so... But there are already hackers and crackers that have programmed mini software which resets the counter to zero  Wink

Unfortunately, this is true. And seeing that some printers are sold at prices that could be considered lower than the production cost of the unit, it's really no wonder. But it's not always a page counter that stops the printer dead in its tracks. Ink cartridges have chips that might signal the printer that they have been used up. The Canon MGS 5250 had those and the chip resetter I used with them wasn't reliable. It required the user to refill as long as the chip still detected ink. Once it locked down the cartridge for being empty there was no way back. Also, after I sold the machine, Amazon was flooded with complaints of this printer model breaking after what seemed like an arbitrary amount of time. So page counters aren't always the culprit. I print extremely little and despite that, almost each and every one of my inkjets broke for no good reason.

So the consequence I take from that is that I will only get laser printers, since they are build for huge printing quantities and are also build to last longer. So far that worked out well. If I couldn't get a reliable old laser printer for so little money, I'd refrain from buying a printer at all since it's almost a pure waste of money considering the low printing costs at copy shops. A hundred bucks could net me a nice printer, but for that money I could also print 3300 pages at the copy shop around the corner. I don't think I ever printed more than 500-1000 pages at home in the last 20 years. No way I could make an inkjet pay for itself.

Torrentus wrote:
But inkjet printers are generally better when printing photos but also with problems

They most likely are. But then again, I don't see the point in going through a quality degrading digital-analog conversion just to get them on a tiny piece of paper instead of just showing them in all their glory on a huge TV-screen or computer monitor Wink
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