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davidoff458
davidoff458

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on Mon 6 Jan 2020 - 4:46
This topic is waiting for deletion. 
I opened it long time ago to group several troubles I was having included updates. While I fixed most of them myself and reported the necessary ones in the bug section, the discussion on updates continued thinking that keeping everything here would have been of benefit for the users.
Unfortunately the topic, over the time, became only confusionary with off topics, continuos misunderstandings, duplicated comments and so on.
When I realized this, I tried my best to keep everything at bay, but it was too late and with limited editing rights there was nothing I could do.
As of now, it is completely useless because it is pratically impossible to understand something.
For this reason I am asking for its removal.
I extracted the relevant and usefull informations from here and opened a new topic focused on the updates. I added new details and changed the layout to make it more intuitive and easy to read.
Thanks
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Last edited by davidoff458 on Thu 30 Jan 2020 - 14:48; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Too much bloated and confusionary topic)
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icy007

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on Mon 6 Jan 2020 - 8:11
hi [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

First of all: is your iso a Win 10 1909 iso ?
If yes then Net framework 4.8 is included, do not install it a second time
my Win 10 1909 iso  was registered when i downloaded it weeks ago from microsoft.
If Yours is alredy registered, do not register it a second time

Try this First :
In Presets Only
Automatic Removing Process
Optimize ISO Size
Protect Important Files
Protect Windows Activation Guy

in > Optimations
 Select only
ISO - Boot - Clean Boot Wim
ISO - Boot - Delete Unneeded Editions
ISO - Delete Unneeded Files
ISO - Windows - Delete Unneeded Editions
Windows - Registry Optimizer
Windows - Unneeded Files Cleanup

Do  not clean winsys as this gives most of the time problems.
some programs ( also Windows ) access the winsys directory ,cleaning gives problems 

If this is not woeking, then you need to winreduce your iso step by step,see what is working and taking notes
of it, in the end  and after a lot of trying it will work

icy
davidoff458
davidoff458

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 6 Jan 2020 - 19:02
Hello Icy and many thanks for your help!
Yes, it's absolutely the latest ISO available from the Microsoft download section (1909 november update).

I don't have any idea on how Windows was autoactivated with my product key without entering its number in the custom ISO, but for one thing that worked I prefer to not ask myself why.
The lesson I learned is that any problem with autoactivation will cause the installation failure (there are many reports online) and this means rebuilding the whole ISO from scratch. All of this only for saving a few clicks needed for activation on post installation! Nahhh!!

I will skip the integration tab, there's no reason to risk there where this can be done directly from Windows.

In point 8 I stated that I cannot open "Administrative templates", but later I discovered that the list of folders that I cannot open is very long (access denied error). I am not sure if this has something to do with the fact that I have enabled the default builtin administrator account as the only one account.
This time I will also create a regular user account.

I am going to follow your suggestions and will let you know. If you hear me on year 2021 it's because I had to deal with the nightmare described in point 3. This is what really scares me!

In the meantime, may I ask you how much is your install size and RAM usage with these settings?
Thanks
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icy007

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on Tue 7 Jan 2020 - 10:01
Hi [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My iso is Windows 10 Home N  , W1919HomeNFinal.iso 1,835,139,072 12/05/2019 16:44 -a--
I have chosen Home N because  I do not want  Microsoft to gather Data from  me (spying ??? )
So there is no Notepad , media, photovieuwer , codecs , vmware ,etc
notepad is replaced by notepad 2 ,photovieuwer by imv.exe & artsage64.exe,
Media player  by potplayer, and there are lots of other replacements
I do not use Vmware to test  and i always can boot in 2 or 3  O.S.
one computer has 32 Gb ram , the other 16
browsers i use are slimjet , Opera ,ungoogled chrome ,sometimes IE, firefox i do not like at all despitre all promoting
one program i advice you to install is Tinywall , this an amazing  free firewall addon,it can block all telemetry and programs
to access the Web, it can protect the host file against editing 
I do not have any problems with my Winreduced and extremely small windows.,i can not reduce it more as
if i do programs will not  work
Winreducing takes a long time to learn and master it , so always take notes what worhs and what not.
Winterstorm has done a fantastic work with his Winreducer, I am  curious about the WinreducerOS,as I see
the inner registry with a lot of dirty tricks,a lot of problems will still arise .

icy

I forgot to tell you not to enable the default administrator,
Instead make Yourself adminsitrator ( just below this)
davidoff458
davidoff458

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Thu 16 Jan 2020 - 21:53
Hello icy,
WR continue to give me very bad headaches. I solved most of the things except the cumulative updates which is a real nightmare.

The "Getting Stuck" problem is due a to a severe bug which now I am going to report. Basically under services tab there are preconfigured settings which is supposed to be safe but both the options (winterstorm/black viper) disable "WAP Push message Routing Service". The install seems to wait for some response from this service and continue installation only after waiting a couple of hours without getting a response. This delay occurs on post install first boot too. I don't know why, but on the Microsoft forums there are lot of reports about this problem.
You may want want to inform the other guy who is having the same problem (although it seems to be that he abandoned and renounced).

Cumulative updates (the current is KB4530684) fails to install with the following error:
We Couldn't Complete the Updates Undoing Changes
Funnily enough this happens at around 90-95% in the boot configuration final stage, just a few minutes before we can say "Hey, I had to wait lot of time, but it worked!".
The presets are the ones you're using plus windows update protection and a few other ones.
Integrating the updates works, but cumulative updates (if I am not wrong) are released once a month and we can't certainly rebuild and reinstall each month.
Not sure if this is a bug or not, but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Plus, not even works [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] When launched the options to keep files and apps are greyed out. it only works on a minimal reduced ISO. If there is some component that breaks this functionality, WR does not protect it and I can't certainly restore each component one by one on each iso just to identify it.
This method was a good compromise to update windows without a full reinstall from scratch, but nothing.

At this point, if these bugs are not fixable, I am wondering if we're better to remove from the ISO every update functionalities (which also allow a much deep cleanup) and do a full reinstall every couple of months.
I don't know if this also will break windows defender definitions (malware, virus etc), but at this point I am seriously evaluating to fully remove WD (I suppose this will be another great gain in performance. I'm an experienced user from very long time, I know how to avoid virus and malware and what is doing WD is consuming resources and annoying me with false alarms on files that I already know to be safe.
To be honest updates are a nightmare on WR and during the trials I have been tempted several times to switch to Ntlite (which provides live edit). It lacks documentation and one have to find out himself how to do things and based on these findings seems to be that only a small part of components responsibile for updates are protected.

I also have problem with night mode (button and brightness regulators are grayed out) and I am not able to find out what the responsible components other than the main ones (will need to sort this thing soon, for the sanity of my eyes!).

Yes, I am very curious about WinReducerOS, but I am very concerned about protection of components and I hope that winterstorm focused on this aspect during the development.

Tynywall was already on my radar, it works fine after fully removing Windows Defender and its components?

For hosts I recommend you to check out "Unified hosts file with base extensions" in github. It contains an unified list of host from several sources and it is the most complete and updated source. Auto-updatable through task manager.

Well, with 16Gb of ram you should not have troubles even on full bloated windows (unfortunately I only have 4Gb and unlike you I am forced to strip down the OS as mush as possible!)
Thanks
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icy007

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on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 1:55
Hi [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank You for informing
My Windows is extemely reduced and everything work perfectly.
I thinks most of yourproblems are due to missing parts of code.
Once You slimmed down Windows,cumulative updates can not be installed,
single updates and drivers shall install.So you will to start reducing each time
to get the latest cumulative updates .
Protecting Updates is no option for me as the iso will grow to +- 2.9Gb
My host is very limited, i use adguard professional to blok ads etc,
the needed files are loaded automaticly after you confim
As virusprotection i use Malwarebutes Corporate
And there is Tinywall to block programs and telemetry to accrss the net

icy
davidoff458
davidoff458

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on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 2:49
Hello icy and thanks for your quick response. I just finished to send the reports where you can find more info if you're interested.
You cannot apply cumulative updates at all in your extremely reduced OS? So, basically you always update windows without cumulative updates, right?
Did you tried to prepare a clean iso with the integrated updates, load it in WR and then apply your extreme configuration?
It worked well for me, but this is a full install from scratch and I cannot do this each month when a new cumulative update is released. This is my main concern. Restoring components one by one to discover what cause each month a cumulative update to fail is pure hell.
Are you sure your concern of additional 3 Gb is for the ISO size and not for the install size? Because in case of ISO size you can compress it to fit the install media or just buy a bigger pendrive (nowadays they are very cheap).
If you mean the install size, then I suppose you refer to the content of WinSXS folder.
Well, I have yet to try, but I suppose that with the above method it could work even with a full cleanup of WinSXS, but I am not sure if after that you can still install all the other updates. WinSXS can also be compressed with LZX which dramatically reduce size (and I suppose it should not break updates like happens with full cleanup although I still have to try since I first must find the best solution to deal with cumulative updates).
For ads block I strongly recommend you Ublock origin, is absolutely the best one and the most low on resourcea. Give it a look at comparisons and users reviews. It can also block the cookie popup of web sites.
Do you use malwarebytes to reduce resources consumption? Because the one of Windows in the last years became good like the most famous software (and in some cases even better). In task manager the windows malware executable (together with its dependant antivirus) run in only 60 Mb of ram. Very light.
I was using Kaspersky which slowed down Windows a lot. Once I discovered that the built protection of Windows was great like it, I switched definitively to it and I noticed a big perfomance boost, everything was much responsive. I would never go back in such full security third party suites.
Thanks
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icy007

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on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 11:25
Hi davidoff458

You misunderstood me.
I have no problem at all to integrate cumulative updates into the iso
once the iso is installed  cumulative updates can not be installed,
but single updates and drivers can be installed.
Yes,for every new cumulative update i have to make a new iso and install.
I have made a complete list of all Winreducer items, 
Download at  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
use it to make a bleuprint  of your iso,
select what is not working , comment and save it in a file
select what is working ,comment and  save it in a file
now you have bleuprints to use to make isos
If You select protect Updates  my install iso grows to +- 2.9 GB,
the size of the installed iso will also grow as items are protected and not removed.
It makes no sense to Winreduce an iso and protect updates.
if You want a small  winreduces Windows that suits You,then do not protect updates.

IUblock is OK, but there is a lot better :Nano Adblocker + Nano Defender
 and  Block Service Workers ( extension)
 
 Do not remove Windows Firewall as it is needed for Tinywall
 
 I use Malwarebytes Corporate  not the usual Malwarebytes
 
 I also use standalone Adguard , it functions onto all browsers and program that access the Net
 
 icy
davidoff458
davidoff458

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on Sun 19 Jan 2020 - 3:44
I am glad to have misunderstood because I was start to believing that even integrating the cumulative update in wreduced iso for a full install was still risky. I am glad to know that this method always works. This is what I wanted to know!
What you say confirms what I am experiencing. Once the custom iso is installed, installing cumulative updates only works with light changes.
Seems that the update protection mode does not protect all the components required for the CU despite the author, in the link previously posted, stated that they are fully supported as long as "Optimizations - EXPERT - WinSxS Folder Cleanup (install.wim)" is not enabled.
I understand that keeping full protection on updates is very hard because required components can change in every CU, therefore in the bug section I suggested the author to put a warning in WR informing about the limited support on CU because as is, people will have the false sense of security that CU works especially because we always starts with light customizations which do not breaks CU, but once we go deeper...FAILURE!
In this way, people wanting extreme presets will already know that this is the wrong way and will save themself from losing lot of time and trials for nothing.
In the bug reports section I also suggested the author to evaluate the possibility to implement a "Live Edit" feature like NtLite which which makes updates easy, fully automated and prone to error. It also allow to quickly reintegrate removed components (in WR, unless I am missing something, to reintegrate a component I must rebuild everything from scratch! A nightmare!).
Hope to see this great surprise or something like that in the new WinreducerOS!

You're right, when we need extreme presets, trying to protect updates to avoid full reinstall it gives only troubles (plus waste of resources), but how can you deal with a full install each month?
Once we have our working wccf, rebuilding the iso only takes some clicks and although the process is slow I don't care because is done in the background. The install process is also pretty fast, therefore I don't even care about this.
But once the desktop load I will have to restore appplications like Visual Studio, Adobe Products, SDKs, application extensions and, in general, long running tasks needed on a fresh system. There are literally hundred of things to restore from scratch.
How you deal with this nightmare each time a cumulative update is released (once a month)?

I'm more convinced that the right way is a reinstall of a winreduced iso each time and I am doing experiments about this (I just opened an interesting thread with some interesting findings), but I really need to find a way to automate and make easy and faster the restoration process of all apps, files, settings, etc.
I was trying to see if I can do at least some sort of automated synchronized backup-restore of files, settings and portable apps. For huge apps highly tied to the system I am afraid I can't do much.
May I ask how do you deal with this?

I tried ro remove Windows Defender with all related components/services and Tinywall seems to works fine. Are you sure?
Many thanks for your list. Is this just the same list I can see in wccf file or you was trying to share your configuration containing all the components you removed in your ISO?
Thanks again!
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icy007

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on Mon 20 Jan 2020 - 15:29
Hi davidoff458


update protection  makes no sense for me as i am winreducing, Winterstorm wrote update protection somewhere
NTlite updates each time a full iso and  reduces it againt to make an iso, so where is the difference with Winreducer,
isn't that rebuilding, and concerning live editing,here the components are not removed, they are put aside for
reintegration, the total size is not reduced.
And my isos are 300 MB smaller than the extreme of NTlite
Before making extreme preset you should make a bleuprint from what works and what does not work,
like i do, or You are going into big trouble.
and do not  take a wcf file of a former Winreducer  version to make a new iso,it will get you into problems.
There where also 2 components not in the Winreducer log, but  present in my list.
Concerning reinstalling You should have a separate partition to install your programs,
a lot of programs (nearly all browsers) still works without installation,for those that do not,
install them as portable, you should backup the links onto the desktop and restore them later.
i also advice you to use bootit,with this MBR you can have 2 partitions to boot from and one patition for storing
programs and data, or You can use Bootit with a EMBR wich gives 7 partitions,1 partition of 8MB is alsways
used by Bootit to boot the partitions.
There is also Yumi,i use it for installing my isos, a 8 GB flash can store alot of isos .
Using Bootit & Yumi makes it possible to delete all the Hyper-V system as You can test in real time
this will reduce the iso a lot
one O.S will always operational when using Bootit, the other can be used to test isos ,5 others with an EMBR
For the the restoration process mayby You can use PCmover Professional , I never used it,
but a friend of mine did.
Windows defender can be removes without any problems



icy
davidoff458
davidoff458

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on Sat 25 Jan 2020 - 22:12
Hello Ici,
sorry for my delay, but I was involved in experiments related to the other topic because is not clear if it is better WinSXS cleanup or WinSXS compression, plus the folder compression feature of WR appears to be buggy.

Ntlite has two methods, the first one is also supported from WR (I should say "It was" in year 2017, but now not for sure and who know from how many time: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I reported the bug with technicals details if you want more info although I'm afraid that this is just an abandoned feature and I don't understand the reason since this should be the main important feature to keep working for a tool like this.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The second method (v1.2) is called "Host refresh Wizard" which basically should be the first method fully automated (one-click style). This is amazing and that's why I am wondering why winterstorm never evaluated to do the same implementation.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unfortunately seems that it is not possible (someone may want to correct me if I am wrong) to update winreducer iso through Ntlite because it requires its own presets files.

Concerning components reintegration, when I build a stripped down ISO, the tool close itself automatically once the task is completed. When I reopen WR, I browse "ExtractedByWinReducer", but all the components I previously removed are greyed out and cannot be restored unless I reopen and mount again the original ISO. Unlike Ntlite which allows to keep the original ISO mounted, WR automatically cleanup the mount folder once the building process is completed.
This is just a minor annoyance, but what I would really like to see in WR is the possibility to remove or reintegrate each component side by side as does Ntlite. As of now, to reintegrate a single component we have to open and mount again the base ISO, then strip again the same components (and this is a long process) except the one we want to reintegrate. For a component restoration which should only take a couple of minutes, we are forced to rebuild everything from scratch.

I have no doubts that WR has better reducing capabilities since other users also reported this (although I have also to say that software evolves and I cannot say for sure that this still applies), but saving 300 Mb from the ISO at the expense of doing a full reinstall each month just to have a cumulative update it does not make sense. Although many taks can be automated it's still a big manual and long work. Applications like Visual Studio (along with its addons) and many others of this type cannot be made portable and restoring their settings requires lot of work (it's not just a "Import Settings from file" style).
I am talking about the main monthly CU, but what if after a week of reinstall Microsoft release a cumulative update (or some other important update) for .Net framework and we need it?
This is why before going through the Window Update complete removal, I want to be sure that the only way is a full reinstall since this is not clear at all when talking about WR.

Did you ever tried MSMG ToolKit? A year ago I checked their forum and it was updated daily with messages from users. Today I still see the same, the author fully involved in the development included the support of CU in very stripped down ISOs.
I was thinking to give it a try, but would like to hear what think before I am going to lose time. It would be nice if could be used to update a winreduced iso, but I am afraid that, just like NtLite, it will only work with its own preset file.
This tool kit lacks of a GUI, but I consider this an advantage because it allows to fully automating the entire process. This is very useful if we're forced to do a reinstall each month.
WR does not accept command line arguments and honestly I am surprised why such similar lack because it only requires 10-20 lines of programming code!

I always do a blueprint and keep records of all removed components in a text file along with their descriptions on what works and not. Without this I can't even imagine how could be possible to ever imagine an extreme ISO.
My main problem is the updates and if I am really forced to do a monthly install, then I really need to carefully evaluate how much automation I can obtain (and how I can make the whole process as short as possible).

Your suggestion to keep data (downloads, documents, portables apps etc) in a separate partition is really great (yes, browsers are not a problem at all). Sometimes we are going to search for complicated solutions when the easiest ones are just in front of our eyes.
Then in WR we change the default location of user folders and system folders and everything should work out of the box, but I heard that some application can have troubles if they are not at their default location. Did you encountered troubles?
Why you recommended to use a third party tool when this can be done directly from Windows which also allow to resize partitions when we need more space?

Many thanks for the USB pendrive suggestion, I am going to buy a new one. It was on my to do list from very long time. I have a 16Gb pendrive, but it is 2.0, therefore not only is bad for running Winreduced isos, but also for storing them! However, even if I upgrade to 3.0 it may be good for storage, but I am not sure how much can be good for running wireduced isos. Testing them directly in the OS through virtual machine I believe is still the only way to speed up everything.
You said that it is possible to delete all the Hyper-V system to test in real time the isos with the main system still operational. How is this possible without an emulator like hyper-v, VirtualBox etc? And what about performance? I switched from VB to Hyper-v at the middle of my entry in the wireducer world and although hyper-v learning curve has been longer than expected I have been impressed from performance improvement and all the possible customizations. It is very hard now for me to switch to something else, but you made me very curious.
What you can tell me about this?

PCMOVER PROFESSIONAL should be the successor of Windows EasyTransfer and the company is partnership with Microsoft. This is something that was already in my target and will try it for sure, but I am wondering how can work if both the operating system are supposed to be online to do the transfer.
I also discovered chocolatey or, even better, Microsoft OneGet which support more repositories included chocolatey. Plus it run through PowerShell meaning that can do everything faster and automated. Did you ever tried it during your the reinstall of your iso?
How you deal with modern ui apps? In theory, once we reconnect to Microsoft account, they should reinstall themself along with their settings, but I am not sure about this. Not sure if it is required "Microsoft account" or "Windows Store" protection mode (or boths). I can only remove OneDrive and other related stuff if I disable these protections. Downloading and installing still work, but I didn't tested a Microsoft account (since at that time this was the last of my problems), so I am wondering if is still possible to keep these functionalities without the Microsoft bloating stuff (included their useless 5Gb OneDrive).
Those applications will sure help a lot, although there are still lot of things to sort out when reinstalling a system from scratch and we're still very far from when we can update without a full reinstall, so I still want to keep this only when I am 100% sure is the only solution.

Many thanks for all of your help, I am sure lot of people will benefit from this topic because we brought to the light so many obscure and hidden aspects of Winreducer.




REGARDING YOUR RESPONSE IN "THE FORUM IS DEAD" TOPIC:
I have always built an ISO with integrated CU and then reloaded that ISO to proceed to reduction. It always worked whether the iso is extreme or not and this seems to be how winter recommended in some topics. I suppose that this the recommend method when we want full optimization (WinSXS cleanup, Windows Update removal etc) and do a full rebuild+reinstall on each time we want to update our system with a new CU.
What's wrong with what I am already doing?

By searching deeper I also found that your method seems to be the same as the one described here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
However, as stated from winter, this method only applies when we want to preserve windows update functionality (including CU) through the settings app  (which still don't work as I reported in bug section), but in case of direct integration like I previously stated it does not make difference.
So, why you're using this method even in the latter case?

I am not sure if I have understood well your steps.
Step2: I must do the integration by opening the same winreduced ISO obtained from step1? Or I must build a second ISO from an untouched win10 iso with all integrations (and no reductions) just like I already does?
Step3: you say to open iso obtained in step1 and win reduce it, but iso obtained in step1 is already reduced.
I am little confused, please accept my apologies!

I also saw conflicting reports about the integration process. In some topic people say that when doing everything in one step (untouched iso + integration + reduction), WR strips down components and then apply updates (which seems the wrong way to me), other says that it first applies the updates and then proceed with the removal process (which makes more sense to me).
Unfortunately, if I remember well, I saw that (in the apply process) WR first remove components and then apply updates.
For this reason I first prepare an untouched ISO with all updates integrated and then reload that ISO to remove components. It would be nice to do everything in one step, it is safe?

Regarding drivers I didn't yet tried the integration. I kept this as the final process because I have always considered it something to not take care about because I have always believed that it was just a matter of doing a copy and paste in the drivers folder.
It seems to be that I was wrong and even for drivers, there is still the same hell like updates. Yahooo!
However, I suppose that it should be safe in case of the method I stated at the beginning. Just like in this way works CU, it should work with drivers too, right?

Regarding .Net 3.5 I never thought about integration since I only develop in 4.8 and most of the older apps requires no less than 4.0. In the rare case that I have to deal with a .net 3.5 application I thought that it was just a matter of downloading the installer. Is that correct? Or I will be forced to reintegrate it through a full reinstall?  

Regarding wccf, I initially adopted the same method including writing the number of options for each tabs and a full complete list in order to easily detect the number of the new options to take care about in new WR versions.
Then, I felt a bit stupid in doing a drastic and time consuming thing like this and that trying to keep record of everything was only a waste of time. Therefore I revised the entire list to a more compact and less descriptive (thinking that would have been more intuitive and faster).
It seems that I was wrong! When we deal with new and unkown things, most of time the time the first intuitions and the correct ones!
Fortunately I also kept a 70% of the list (and records on why components have been kept or removed).

Hope that people seeing this topic will take advantages of your gold recommendations (and my mistakes!).
Thanks


Last edited by davidoff458 on Sun 26 Jan 2020 - 21:10; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added response to icy007 from)
davidoff458
davidoff458

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 2:19
Hello Icy,
before responding please check the above because I think that I have already responded and seem strictly related to your new findings.
This is a copy of you new findings:
---------------------------------------------------
"This evening i have been testing
i first removed everything out of d:\WinReducerEX100_x64\WORK\INTEGRATE\
I also cleaned Sytem in order to select no drivers ets
Then i made an iso without updates,drivers,net48 & framework 3.5
TestToUpdate.iso 1,643,825,152 01/26/2020 20:28 -a--
Then I moved back d:\WinReducerEX100_x64\WORK\INTEGRATE\UPDATES\Framework35\ with
Framework 3.5 & updates dito inside
I also moved back d:\WinReducerEX100_x64\WORK\INTEGRATE\UPDATES\x64\NET48\ with
Inside Net Framework 4.8
Idem for Directory d:\WinReducerEX100_x64\WORK\INTEGRATE\UPDATES\x64\RS5\ with
inside all the Updates
I took the first iso To integrate updates,net48 & framework 3.5
5 items were integrated,i saw integrating framework 3.5,framework 4.8 and updates
the result was : Updated.iso 1,867,294,720 01/26/2020 20:42 -a--
I put this iso onto a multiboor stick (Yummi)
The iso installed perfectly.
Cumulative update and other single updates installed ,framework 3.5 istalled
and probably framework 4.8. So it is possible to update a winreduced iso if
no updates are integrated"
---------------------------------------------------

I am not sure if I have understood well. Let start from the beginning otherwise me and the other people will get confused.
Supposing that I am starting from scratch and I have just installed an extreme winreduced iso (with no updates or drivers integration at all)...
Normally the settings app will try to install CU KB4528760 which is the latest one (on windows 10 pro version 19H2, the latest). I block the update because I already know that will fail.
What are the next steps to install this CU?
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icy007

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 2:26
Hi davidoff458

That is quite a lot., if i forgot something,well tell me.
No need for a usb3 stick as on booting only usb2 is available to my knowledge,but i can be wrong,putting the isos onto a multiboot
will be a lot quicker i agree, but that is all, you can even ude a 8 GB stick to put a lot of isos onto it
I am using Bootit about 10 years.
windows only boots 1 partitition ,with a mbr bootit can boot 4 different os like Windows 95,2000,XP,linux, you name it.
an EMBR can boot 200 different OS (But not compatible with standard MBR), can Windows ???
Bootit can do evey thing a partition manager does,create,delete,extend,reduce,copy a partition,format,reset bytes to 00 (in case of a virus),
backup & restore OS , MBR to GPT,GPT to MBR , Fat to NTFS,NTFS to FAT, fat format ,etc, it is my lifesaver
See [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And because Bootit boots several partitions or Disks, there is no need to install Hyper-V, use a partition to install the iso You made in real time,
that is what i do for years and it is so easy with a multiboot made by Yummi..

Yes NTLike can retore removed items ,but they are still somewhere in your windows.
If You made a suiteble Winreduced item there is no need to restore items, why ?? , i never do,

I never used PCMOVER PROFESSIONAL or anything alike, so if You try tell me how it went,
probably if using Bootit it may be possible to transfer from partition to partition ??

and it is normal removed components a grayed out, they are removed for ever

I do not use Windows UI 's ,Microsoft account or Windows Store , be carefull with those UI,
they gather data (spying ??) all the time,even notepad does a lot

I replaced Office by WPS Office wich is fully compatible ,smaller,portable.

I just did it this evening and it works
Do a full reducing but without updates,drivers,Framework 3.5 & 4.8,save the iso
1 use this iso to integrate updates,drivers,Framework 3.5 & 4.8 and save the iso,
i tested it all is perfect installed , install the iso onto a partition and install your programs
2 do the same operation to install new updates,drivers,Framework 3.5 & 4.8
So there is no need to do a full reducing when a new cumulative update is availabe,
just integrate updates,drivers,Framework 3.5 & 4.8 , those all together are 5 items
I never install drivers via Winreducer
If You do not delete Windows Update Service needed drivers and single updates will install automaticly
You can always install Framework 3.5 if Windows Update Service is present

Icy






davidoff458
davidoff458

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 4:28
Yes, sorry for being so long. Its my nature and when I have lot of details to write I am unable to be synthetic. I understand that for the reader can be a bit frustrating. I am sorry!

My Surface Pro has an USB port 3.0 and I connect through an HUB 2.0 (not sure if will have to buy a new hub with support for 3.0). As of now with my pendrive 2.0  I have 3.5 Mb on write and 15Mb on read. Not only is impossible to run an operating system, but will be a pain even for storing data.

Yes, bootit should be like other bootloaders . So, the default windows bootloader will need to be replaced from bootit, right?
Are you sure this is really needed? Windows seems to be able to boot multiple partitions and the number should depend from the available disk space:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Mhh, it's very interesting the link. But Windows cannot do the same?
This is really a great idea and without emulation we can see with our eyes what can be wrong in the production system because basically we're directly on the hardware.  We can also expect the performance to be the same as the real system. I would try to manage partitions with Windows, unless you give me valid reason to use booit.

Yes, if we made multiple isos each containing a limited set of removed components, the restoral of component is a bit better, but very far from "click and restore" of Ntlite. Howeber, better than nothing. I hope that winreducedos will have this new important implementation.

I will have to try Pc Mover Professional, but I don't see the reason for building another os just to transfer, it depends mainly from what can transfer. I will try and will let you know.

Yes, once we removed the components they are greyed out and cannot be recovered unless we load the base iso used before reducing. Ntlite can restore with a simple click. Hope that Winter can adopt such feature.

From what I know they gather data to allow synchronization of devices and this include automatic restoration of settings and apps, but I have read that there are repositories which allow to download their apps as packages and I suppose they should be just like portable apps. The tweaks section already provides tweaks to disable spying and if I am not wrong some other sections of WR too. I will try to see how these repositories works and will let you know.

WPS Office seems very nice and I like that it is portable. Will try for sure!

Ok returning to the main goal....
...let me understand. I have now running the first iso you mentioned in hyper-v and, as expected trying to update it from the settings app failed. I installed this iso after a full format (to simulate a new system built from scratch).
Now, I remount this iso, integrate the target cumulative update (KB4528760) and save this as a new ISO called "ISO4528760".
Next step is to mount ISO4528760 in the winreduced operating system, launch SetUp.exe and waiting for installer checks. At this point I should be presented with the options to reinstall and keep all data, settings and apps or erase everything and do a full default install. Hoping that the options to preserve data, settings and apps will not be greyed out as I already reported in the bug section.
Unfortunately I have not preserved the Setup.exe during the build process.
I will have to rebuild again and will be a long process because is a very extreme iso.
Is all of this right?

Finally some good news! I am glad to see that drivers, small updates and .Net framework can install fine if we keep Windows Update service!!
avatar
icy007

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 9:24
Hi davidoff458
it is best to have a separate usb for a  multiboot USB,i already have 6 isos onto a 8 Gb stick and surely more can be put.
concerning Bootit, if You try it:
If you do not GPT drive then a MBR is a  standard; MS partition table with  4 partitionds,
You can control this partition table and sectors with Bootice to look for bootviruses
In this MBR should be :
- 1 Partition ,8Mb,is by Bootit
- 1 Partition 35 Gb is used for a normal Windows You use every day
- 1 Partition 35 GB can be used to test isos or anything else
-  The last partition takes the rest and is used to store your popgrams and data,
Forget Windows for multiibooting,when installing a window iso  the bootsector is changed and without
a special program you will not boot another partition but this partition
With the Bootit install disk You have to restore the original bootsector,afterward You can boot 
all Your bootable partitions under Bootit control. 
Backup to your Dive D , that way it is very easy to restore any backup
Restoring any  backupped partition takes a few minutes 

this partition (not a logical one) can be used as D drive for both the 35 Gb partitions,
In case of  a virus contamination it is very easy to restore anything
so if you are using portable programs You can directly use them in your installed winreduced windows
You can copy Your desktop links and put them into the winrduced windows.
Or You can use Runit,this program launcher dates from Windows 95 and still works, it is the best program
launcher i ever met until now.


Removed components can never be restored, why should You if the iso works correctly ?


With Tinywall spying can be stopped completely,but the spies are still inside windows an  and use useless power of the processor


Preserve data, settings and apps will not  work if you install on a formatted partition
It may work if a former installed OS is present, so let me know


icy
avatar
icy007

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 10:36
Hi
Installing a new windows over an installed windows does not work at all
desktop is  empty
links & prorams in old windows are not working
So portable apps or install.
Matby PCMover can handle it
But in my case it doesn't take to long to install my programs

icy
Mollenberg
Mollenberg

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 12:59
i have same problem 

7) The wireless setup profile it is supposed to get the wifi connection ready to go, but I just get the same result as if no profile was loaded (Network icon > Selection of Wifi Network > insertion of password > connection).


wifi dont work
avatar
icy007

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Mon 27 Jan 2020 - 16:00
Hi
I just compressed my  Windows C drive, withWin 10 Tweaker 14.3.exe, all program installed
H drive is the exact copy from c (can boot with bootit as C, in this case original C becomes H )
I used extreme compression,everything works Ok,Windows seems to be a little bit quicker in
loading & responding
Result 2.9 Gb Smaller

c:\ :  32,123,708 k of 36,347,060 k free
h:\ :  29,117,120 k of 36,347,060 k free

 If You try this,d 'nt use Win 10 Tweaker 15.2  Pro ,it gives problems, use  Win 10 Tweaker 14.3 Pro

icy

icy
davidoff458
davidoff458

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Tue 28 Jan 2020 - 3:59
Windows already supports multiboot system as long as the systems are all windows. Partitions can be be conveniently created and resized through the built-in tool.
As a bootloader (for booting all kind of systems) nothing can beat GRUB2. No third party companies can do what does an active community made of hundreds of developers from the linux world.
So, unless someone want to boot also linux, it doesn't make sense to play with bootloaders and MBR.
For testing and storing the ISOs, in case of limited storage (like my case, 64 Gb) the only solution is playing with a fast PenDrive (or whatever type of external storage which can provide a better speed) when the free space in the HD is going to finish.
Hyper-v or any other emulator is still required if one needs the main system operational and a second system running at the same time. For example, in my case I need linux running for a couple of hours per day with my main system still operational. This is only possible through virtual machine, there's no way around it!

Yes, once the ISO works correctly I don't need anymore to remove or restore components. But to reach the goal of a working desired ISO and find out the perfect balance, we first need to remove and, when needed, restore problematic components.
Doing an entire rebuild and reinstall only because over the time we discover that a component break something is a nightmare. Ntlite staff know this and made live editing of the host OS. Hope that winter will take in consideration to do the same.

Mollenberg, I replied to your topic, but you must have missed it.

Icy, I'm afraid you missed most of my previous comments. A format is always performed automatically from windows when we install Windows for the first time and this was the first step. I mentioned the word format just to make more clear.
Regarding compression, please post your findings here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This is a dedicated topic I opened recently which discusses about this.

Can we focus on the updates troubles? This is the main argument of the topic and I would like to focus on it.

Icy, you made some posts concerning the updates and your new tests. This made me think that you found a way to fix the bugs I reported and get the updates finally working.
Now you tell me again that the only way to install cumulative updates is to reinstall everything from scratch (and lose settings, apps etc).
May I ask you the reason for your enthusiasm of your findings? People with some experience on WR already know that when an extreme preset is applied to an untouched win10 iso containing integrated cumulative updates, it always works, but this implies a complete reinstall and saying goodbye to settings, applications and all the data. So, what the purpose for your topic titled "To Winterstorm" and your tests published here and there?



OK GUYS! ANYONE INTERESTED IN KEEPING A WINREDUCED SYSTEM UPDATED WITHOUT LOSING YOUR APPS, SETTINGS ETC, PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!
Based on my researches here in the forum (included recommendation from winterstorm) and Ntlite, the only safe way to install cumulative updates on a winreduced system without losing your data is this:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This will also prevent the cumulative update from automatically reinstalling removed components. Basically, one should end up with the system in the same state, but updated with the CU.
The link shows instruction for Ntlite, but I translated it to work with Winreducer and I am going to show step by step.
Please understand that I am not a WR expert and there may be things that I have done wrong!


RECEIPT
WINDOWS 10 PROFESSIONAL 19H2 (THIS IS THE LATEST ONE, THE NOVEMBER UPDATE)
TARGET CUMULATIVE UPDATE: KB4530684 (windows10.0-kb4528760-x64_4ea59b94564145460ab025616ff10460bb7894d8.msu THIS IS THE LATEST ONE, THE ONE THAT WINDOWS UPDATE WILL INSTALL ONCE WE CHECK FOR UPDATES FROM THE SETTINGS APP)
WINREDUCER VERSION: 2.3.0.0 (THE LATEST, OF COURSE!)
WCCF: all presets unchecked except important files and windows search. I didn't enabled Windows Update protection because, in prevision of a failure, I can quickly reuse the reduced ISO to do a full optimization, cleanup and windows update removal etc etc.
However I ensured that all windows updates required components are not removed.
Optimizations none (except "ISO - Windows - Delete Unneeded Editions").
The components removed is around one/third of my extreme winreduced system, just to make things easier and faster.
Tests done in Hyper-v.
Link to wccf: https://onlinenotepad.us/CESEDiIqjz

STEP 1
Load the windows ISO and the provided preset. Apply changes, build the iso and proceed to installation.
Once the system boot into desktop disable your internet connection (in case that Windows decide to start auto-updating).
You can even disable the hyper-v adapter like I have done.

STEP 2
Open again the untouched win 10 iso in wireducer. Paste the cumulative update in "WORK\INTEGRATE\UPDATES\x64\19H2" and then pick up that folder from the update button.
Only enable "ISO - Windows - Delete Unneeded Editions" and leave everything as default.
Press apply and build the ISO.

STEP 3
In winreducer open the iso built in STEP 2 and apply the same wccf used in step 1. This time deactivate the "Unattended" tab.
Appy changes and build the ISO.

STEP 4
From your winreduced system, mount the iso built on step 3 and double click on the mounted folder. If the autoinstaller does not start, enter inside the folder and manually execute Setup.exe.
As soon as the first screen of the installer appears, press on "Check how Windows setup download updates" and select "Not right now". Continue until the last screen.
At this point we should be presented with 3 options. The one we want to select is "Keep personal files and Apps".
Proceed to installation and get our winreduced os updated!

But...
Surprise!
TO BE DELETED 2020-011

The failure is due to hyper-v? I really need to retry AGAIN directly on the system hardware to demonstrate that will happens the same?
I'm not surprised at all and time ago I reported the bug with more advanced details here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Honestly I don't think that this is just a bug. I start to think that the development of cumulative updates support has been abandoned years ago.
And this is not the convenient update through the settings app. This is the kind of method recommended and supposed to always work. It works, but only in NtLite!
And this is not even an extreme ISO!

I am very tired and at this point I am forced to give up. It's nearly a month that I am trying to get this thing working and I lost so much time for nothing.
If there is no way, then I will go for a full reinstall each time a cumulative update is released (once per month), but this time I want to hear this directly from WinterStorm in person!!!

SO GUYS, THERE IS NO WAY TO KEEP A WINREDUCED OS UPDATED WITHOUT REINSTALLING FROM SCRATCH AND WITHOUT LOSING APPLICATIONS, FILES, SETTINGS ETC! KEEP THIS WELL IN MIND!


AT THIS POINT I THINK THAT WINTERSTORM IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SAY THE LAST WORD AND PUT A DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION TO THIS TOPIC !!!


THANKS TO ALL!


WAITING FOR WINTERSTORM...


Last edited by davidoff458 on Tue 28 Jan 2020 - 11:40; edited 1 time in total
avatar
icy007

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Tue 28 Jan 2020 - 5:22
hi [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No need for Hyper-V in your case.and Grub
Bootit can always save and restore partitions.
1 bootit partition 8 Mb 
1 system  partition (C ,20 GB)
1 the rest +- 44 Gb  for ???
You can  any time save your working windows ,format  that partition,install your winreduced iso,
save that iso and restore  your working directory
You are looking far to far, believe me, you make everything to complicated.
icy
davidoff458
davidoff458

TO BE DELETED Empty Re: TO BE DELETED

on Thu 30 Jan 2020 - 14:50
This topic is waiting for deletion. 
I opened it long time ago to group several troubles I was having included updates. While I fixed most of them myself and reported the necessary ones in the bug section, the discussion on updates continued thinking that keeping everything here would have been of benefit for the users.
Unfortunately the topic, over the time, became only confusionary with off topics, continuos misunderstandings, duplicated comments and so on.
When I realized this, I tried my best to keep everything at bay, but it was too late and with limited editing rights there was nothing I could do.
As of now, it is completely useless because it is pratically impossible to understand something.
For this reason I am asking for its removal.
I extracted the relevant and usefull informations from here and opened a new topic focused on the updates. I added new details and changed the layout to make it more intuitive and easy to read.
Thanks
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